As a user, I just want to go to /c/pancakes, and I think I should see the entire pancake fediverse, leaving the question of who is and isn’t included in that list up to me and maybe a informal discussion on /c/metapancake for users to trade blocklist of the really bad pancakes, to apply at my leisure client side.

Leaving as little decision making ability in the hands of instance owners and their moderation delegates. To free the pancake community as a whole from having a /u/spez or a /u/gallowboobs or some other creepy spook from Edwards Air Force base putting a noose around their neck !

I agree, I believe the fediverse as it exists just create many “mini-reddits” the problem still exists and the incentives to concentrate attention into “big instances” and “big communities” will almost certainly recreate the same problem that reddit does. Except with a fragmented audience, the misdeeds and abuses of admins will be harder to detect and more confusing to escape.

So, I agree, without serious steps, taken urgently to disempower instance owners and their lieutenant moderators I believe Lemmy and the Fediverse are already doomed. An aristocratic class of server owners will have free reign to gaslight the small remnant of reddit refugees into believe whatever their interests desires.

And based on your username, I suspect that you are one of these owners, that this is the real reason of your objection to further disempowerment of instance owners and that what I see as a nightmare is in fact your dream.

Then just don’t make the post a crosspost ?

If you don’t want what your posts being seen, put them in increasingly obscure places, I’m pretty sure we can even have invite only communities, or undiscoverable communities that can stave off eternal september forever.

But this is a social network, it exists for pro-social reasons, it should not cripple itself for the sake of the unsocial. Without agglomeration systems, lemmy is becoming the same as reddit, and that will eventually lead to tyrannical owners and mods, community fragmentation where everyone becomes a mutual hostage-taker of everyone else to the benefit of moderators.

If you don’t want to become part of the community, there are many unfederated servers you can use which won’t even be visible by outsiders, from your description I think that’s what you problem is, you don’t want to be on a federated server. At least maybe one that doesn’t allow outsiders in.

Then just write in a .txt file on your computer using notepad.
You have to understand, the point of social media is to come together.
It is very easy to fragment into ever smaller group, it will NEVER be difficult to be excluded.
It simply IS NOT the problem we are discussing here.
The problem IS the fragmentation that is unavoidable when we try to decentralize.

Without this Lemmy becomes Reddit with extra steps, it creates the “one big community” on the “one big server” it put all the power in the hand of whoever has the key to that instance, and just like that we’re back on reddit.

We have to be able to have a “books” lemmy community that exists accross the whole lemmy very, I want there to be 1500 books community on 1500 servers. I want anyone to be able to post on any of them and be just as likely to be seen.

Because if you don’t then, every topic on the lemmyverse will look like this

Books@lemmy.ml - 12.7K subscribers
Books@lemmy.world - 6.56K subscribers
Books@lemmygrad.ml - 464 subscribers
Books@sh.itjust.works - 233 subscribers

And hundreds more with less than 100 subscribers, where posting could not be seen by even 1% of 1% of 1% of users ?

This puts all the power into the Books@lemmy.ml mods and the lemmy.ml instance owner.

And worse, as these mods become more and more lazy or corrupt or just stop caring. That one big community fragments based on what becomes excluded from the “one big community”

So you end up with the second community getting filled up with toxic anti-vaxx and flat earthers, which further empowers the “one big community” because now the alternatives are total poison, the VERY IDEA of leaving becomes unthinkable.

This is the logic we are fleeing Reddit and Twitter from, this is the logic that created the horrible places like Rumble, Gab, Parler and ducking “Truth” , which become empowered by in their toxicity by the centralisation and polarization of the “one big community”

What I’m saying is that you’re basically making an “all lives matters” argument, yes it’s true but that’s just not the problem, you can make private, invite only or communities with incomprehensible and unassociable names. Nothing is stopping your leaving in the lemmy woods and never being seen again.

That is just not the problem at hand.

Great !! It means we’re not alone in recognizing the danger of concentrating power in the hands of a few instance owners and operators of the “one big community”

In this case you have to be posted AS A crosspost to take effect, and any one of the cross posted community can just delete the post, or presumably uncrosspost it.

The problem usually is that, nobody bother interacting with small communities and aggregate around the “one big community” for that topic.

Small community who would want to remain insular have lots of ways of disappearing further if they want to, but that’s never the actual problem of small communities. It is always easier to have less reach and become less relevant than the opposite which better crossposts enable.

The problem is that then people only post in the “one big community” and this neuters the decentralization aspects of Lemmy and fragments the lemmy community as a whole.

I think this is a great compromise where communities remain distinct and granular, but we get a common discussion space for all by default

Here is how I suggested this be presented

https://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy/issues/3827#issuecomment-3201567252

System should be designed without credence given to abusers and the abusers dealt with later.

Brigading and insincere engagement should be dealt with by another system, rather than disempowering the users (in this case it would be restraining their reach)

If we build system with the actions of abusers, then we end up building prisons instead.

If I were subscribed to both those places and saw posts from either of those places, it would make zero difference for which server they are. And the same goes for 99.99% of users. You have to be lost pretty far in the weeds to know the nuance and difference between the two.

I don’t think clash is the right way to think about it. It’s missing half the discussion to see just one. That’s the problem.

And with the way things are, users will not double post to each, eventually one of the two will wither and die. For most communities, this situation of two communities will not even exist.

Out of band classifiers makes sense.

Also Lemmyverse wide agglomeration of communities should be the default view, the current balkanized Lemmyverse communities cause “big community syndrome” where the community unit becomes centralized again, negating most of Lemmy’s benefits relative to reddit.

Yes, censorship is cancer. Why didn’t the cancer stay on Reddit.

Hopefully, automatic external caching of all content makes any form of deletion by users or mods physically impossible

Maybe humans just deserve war after all

That comic is so full of shit. Anyway, enjoy brown nosing mods forever because the moment stop toeing that line, you’re gonezo

It’s an essential component of algorithmic sorting. Even on Reddit the total isn’t important, it’s your history of regularly getting approval or other users that counts, not the absolute number. In fact giving more weight to high karma value would just created a positive feedback loop when sightly more upvoted accounts, get exponentially more exposure and this would break the sorting algorithm.

This is like saying Bob in New York and Bob in Austin as different

Therefore for this reason /c/knitting in Seattle and /c/knitting in De Leon Springs are different things that must be considered individually in their own terms.

Nobody wants to distinguish and reads individually about the 108000 knitting communities in the USA. There is only /c/knitting, the rest is hair splitting and exposed infrastructure

I have heard this meme before, lemmy is not email

Also application that go against user intuition, start with a permanent handicap.

But in this case, this is fatal, you cannot learn your way into making lemmy.example.com/c/piracy should you all /c/piracy on all instance

The functionallity simply is missing and the consequence is everything will be on the lemmy.biginstance.com/c/thebigcommunity and everything else will be invisible (and probably defederated outright as moderation becomes increasingly untenable)

Federation is broken, if you’re not on lemmy.world you’re not in the real Lemmy

So stop doing a mastodon Lemmy. Shit’s getting too complicated. If it matters which instance you join, that means you have to choose which one, that means you have to read each instance manifesto for the right fit. That means 99% of new users already realized this isn’t going to work out and returned to Reddit

lemmy.ml should be a roundrobin dns that sends you to a random instance in the pool. Or else you will re-centralize lemmy and curmble under the IT bill.